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History of Westeros • View topic - Deep Ones vs Empire of the Dawn

Deep Ones vs Empire of the Dawn

Post any theories you might have, or share one you might have discovered elsewhere.

Deep Ones vs Empire of the Dawn

Postby thupple » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:01 pm

It has always seemed to me that there is a overriding dichotomy going on in the supernatural realm (and the saga), epitomized by R'hollor vs the Great Other - yet that always felt too limited. The World of Ice and Fire both added to my sense of this, and confused me immensely, so many elements swirling about. Your "Great Empire of the Dawn" episode cleared up a lot of my confusion, and then I was able to see the outlines of what has been niggling at me for so long.

I think the Deep Ones are important, and are more than just backstory. I believe they are the "Ice" of "Ice and Fire" - and the Empire of the Dawn lineage is of course the "Fire".

My theory goes something like this. (I apologize in advance for being rushed and messy - but I just want to get this out)

Both the DOs and the Dawners are supernatural, maybe from other planes (DOs), or maybe just other planets (Dawners). The Others are frozen Deep Ones, I think. It seems to me that the Dawners were fighting them off with the Five Forts, maybe they came upriver from the area of the Thousand Islands, maybe it was a swamp that the Dawners turned into a desert to fend off the water demons. Maybe the DOs own the Sunset Sea, and that is why no one ever returns from there, and why there are no trade routes through there. Perhaps the Dawners came that way towards Westeros, and were corrupted and became the Iron Islanders (why they are bleak and nihilistic, but don't have the webbing, since they were Dawners and not humans originally). That would make Euron not only a scion of the Empire of the Dawn, but of the Deep Ones, and might explain why he is such an evil, powerful, sorcerous entity. Maybe the DOs corrupt the fused black stone of the Dawners, making it oily...and maybe that is what happened to Asshai, once a great city of fused black stone, corrupted during the Long Night. Maybe the DOs corrupted the Bloodstone Emperor, and he used his magic combined with theirs to make that comet hit the moon, bringing on the Long Night and time of dominance of the Deep Ones, when they were able to overwhelm Asshai, and utterly corrupt it, and create the Shadow, where no one can now pass anymore. Maybe they are looking for a new Bloodstone Emperor now that the comet is back, to bring down the second moon and make Planetos theirs once and for all - maybe that's Euron's role - the new Bloodstone Emperor.

I feel like it is an elemental battle, water vs fire - I think there are vestiges of the DOs influence all over Planetos, in the culture of the Iron Islands (breeding with Dawners) and the Sisters (breeding with humans), shadow magic, the Squishers and the Thousand Islanders, the Toad people - hell, PATCHFACE.

And same with the Dawners, largely the Valyrian stuff, but also R'hollor and those related magix, prophecy and blood/fire sorcery, the ancient "Dawn Age" founders of the Great Houses of Westeros, Bran the Builder, the ancient buildings of Westeros that you have pointed out - Storms' End (battling with the DOs there) and Battle Isle (more battle with the DOs), Pyke (corrupted by DOs), Winterfell's old keep (battle with the Frozen DOs - the Others), Moat Cailin (battle with the DOs, maybe that is why it is surrounded such a poisonous swampland - corrupted?).

Maybe the Rhoynar were descendants of the Dawners, and maybe Garin's Curse was calling up the bleak magic of the DOs to poison the land and the people so his enemies could not have it - whatever that magic was, it was so powerful it has blighted that area for centuries, and the plague itself seems very Deep Ones-esque to me, another creepy way to make the planet their domain of despair.

Anyway, so present-day, we have the scions of the Dawn + Humanity/Earth Magix (Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bloodraven, Bran etc) vs the Deep Ones (the Others) and the scion of both branches of the supernatural - Euron, who might comprise Ice and Fire more than anyone else and be the new Bloodstone Emperor, who will marry and betray the new Amethyst Empress (Dany) and try to bring about the next Long Night with vile sorceries. (I also wonder if Quaithe - as Shiera Seastar - is not also corrupted and fighting on that side - that creepy vision of Euron on the throne with the woman sounded Bloodraven esque to me, and made me wonder if that isn't Shiera with him)

One thing I still don't get is how the evil can be defeated - things are looking very grim for Planetos at the moment. How can one measly sword change all that? Lightbringer has to be more than just a sword.

All in all, the earth (like the common folk) suffers when the gods (high lords) play their game of thrones. And that to me is the overriding structure - the game within the game.

So that is my messy ass theory. Even if you think nothing of it, I thank you for helping me find the clarity to put it all together finally, albeit with tired eyes and duct tape. This has been bugging me for years!
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Re: Deep Ones vs Empire of the Dawn

Postby thupple » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:26 pm

Reviewing the Great Empire of the Dawn ep again, and realized that the original "God-on-Earth" (first emperor of the Dawn) was supposed to be the son of the Lion of Night and the Maiden Made-of-Light. So carrying that logic into my theory, that would mean the Dawners, and all their descendants, are scions of both DeepOnes (Lion of Night) and the mysterious Maiden Made-of-Light, who I'm guessing might have been an alien (because of the whole emperor "ascending to the stars" part of the story)
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Re: Deep Ones vs Empire of the Dawn

Postby Alabastur » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:17 pm

I agree that the Deep Ones played an important role in the prehistory of Planetos, but not in the current story nor the ice and fire dichotomy.

I think they belonged to an Earth & Water dichotomy, representing a struggle between the forces that dwelt beneath the earth and those that dwelt beneath the water.

The Deep Ones would obviously represent the water, but the earth... well, in The World of Ice and Fire we are introduced to the mazemakers, half-giants who built mazes leading underground into the earth. Legends suggest they were destroyed by enemies from the sea, merlings in some tales, yet the Deep Ones are said to have inspired the legends of merlings.

However, the fathers of the Deep Ones were supposedly creatures of the sea. Since the greenseers of the children of the forest were capable of warging into sea creatures, I have a theory they created the Deep Ones to annihilate the mazemakers: https://thesuddenstorm.wordpress.com/20 ... owned-god/
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