The mutineers at Craster's

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The mutineers at Craster's

Postby Heartsbane » Wed May 14, 2014 11:32 am

First time post and whatnot!

I'm not a book purist, so I don't mind the show taking a different direction in any episode, really but I found the whole storyline about the mutineers at Craster's the dumbest and silliest thing the show has done so far. I'm hoping someone else agrees with me because I'm too insecure to be the only one with this opinion.

Aside from another opportunity for HBO to get us off our tractors with gratuitous nudity and sexual violence, the premise just made no damn sense to me. First of all, how many men were there? How many women? Logistically speaking, it would have taken firearms to keep these women from simply killing these guys. None of these men could have ever slept or turned there backs. It just wouldn't have worked out for them.

The argument I guess can be made, and I imagine it was in the writing room, that Craster's women were the classic abuse victims yada yada yada. And although Martin never made this clear in his books, I got the idea after the reveal of the baby sacrifices that it wasn't as clear-cut as that. I had assumed Craster was a horrible asshole to them because he could be. Not because he's a man and he brainwashed his daughter-wives into servitude, but because he's not expendable to them. They need him because he's the breeding stock that keeps the monsters away.

So that being said, what the hell was keeping them from burning down the hut before they were rescued by Jon Snow and Co.? Keeping with the HBOesque premise of oh these poor poor women look how hard it is for them they have no agency before the strong men come to save them, what the hell was stopping them from burning down the hut years ago? Wasn't it because they would have died pretty quickly, likely within hours or a day or two without regular Other sacrifices?

I mean, I'm not crazy, right?
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Re: The mutineers at Craster's

Postby SerKnute » Sun May 18, 2014 3:17 am

Heartsbane wrote:First time post and whatnot!

I'm not a book purist, so I don't mind the show taking a different direction in any episode, really but I found the whole storyline about the mutineers at Craster's the dumbest and silliest thing the show has done so far. I'm hoping someone else agrees with me because I'm too insecure to be the only one with this opinion.

Aside from another opportunity for HBO to get us off our tractors with gratuitous nudity and sexual violence, the premise just made no damn sense to me. First of all, how many men were there? How many women? Logistically speaking, it would have taken firearms to keep these women from simply killing these guys. None of these men could have ever slept or turned there backs. It just wouldn't have worked out for them.

The argument I guess can be made, and I imagine it was in the writing room, that Craster's women were the classic abuse victims yada yada yada. And although Martin never made this clear in his books, I got the idea after the reveal of the baby sacrifices that it wasn't as clear-cut as that. I had assumed Craster was a horrible asshole to them because he could be. Not because he's a man and he brainwashed his daughter-wives into servitude, but because he's not expendable to them. They need him because he's the breeding stock that keeps the monsters away.

So that being said, what the hell was keeping them from burning down the hut before they were rescued by Jon Snow and Co.? Keeping with the HBOesque premise of oh these poor poor women look how hard it is for them they have no agency before the strong men come to save them, what the hell was stopping them from burning down the hut years ago? Wasn't it because they would have died pretty quickly, likely within hours or a day or two without regular Other sacrifices?

I mean, I'm not crazy, right?


Have to agree with you Heartsbane. Since we're not really given a lot of views into Craster's Keep after the mutiny in the books I think the show has done a poor job with their diversion here from the natural storyline. I didn't have a problem with the diversion itself, but the small details like these are what they should be very particular about and paying attention to. I guess we're supposed to believe the mutineers had guard schedules and in enough numbers that the wives were not able to cut their throats in their sleep. I mean I do think there was a sort of battered-wives syndrome going on here, that was clear by Craster's treatment of Gilly when she's giving birth, but yes, it has a lot of elements where we as viewers have to suspend belief, which I think is a shame because for the most part they've done a fantastic job in their deviations from the natural storyline.
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Re: The mutineers at Craster's

Postby Phoenix » Thu May 22, 2014 12:36 am

I agree with everything said above, you're certainly not alone in your opinion! As soon as that whole storyline arc started I was sceptical that I would like it, but I really try to keep an open mind with show changes; however, now that's it's been and resolved, I don't really see what it achieved.
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Re: The mutineers at Craster's

Postby Phoenix » Thu May 22, 2014 12:41 am

Posted before I'd finished!

I was going to add... One of the only things I could think of, was that Bran's storyline was set to be pretty action-less for this season (true so far) so I guess the show's creators thought it would provide a little meat to his arc? Sometimes I wonder whether the show's producers worry that if they don't fulfil a quota of blood and boobs then they'd lose all their viewers.
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Re: The mutineers at Craster's

Postby Vaxis » Thu May 22, 2014 12:54 am

Phoenix wrote:Posted before I'd finished!

I was going to add... One of the only things I could think of, was that Bran's storyline was set to be pretty action-less for this season (true so far) so I guess the show's creators thought it would provide a little meat to his arc? Sometimes I wonder whether the show's producers worry that if they don't fulfil a quota of blood and boobs then they'd lose all their viewers.


From what I've read and heard, they wanted to Bran to face a human danger this season. Which is probably a nice way to say they needed filler for him. I can almost understand where they're coming from, because whenever I talk to people watching the show, they seem to be very bored of Bran and disinterested in his story. But ultimately, the Crasters subplot falls short. At least Karl was awesome to watch.
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Re: The mutineers at Craster's

Postby DarrenT » Thu May 22, 2014 2:30 pm

Vaxis wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Posted before I'd finished!

I was going to add... One of the only things I could think of, was that Bran's storyline was set to be pretty action-less for this season (true so far) so I guess the show's creators thought it would provide a little meat to his arc? Sometimes I wonder whether the show's producers worry that if they don't fulfil a quota of blood and boobs then they'd lose all their viewers.


From what I've read and heard, they wanted to Bran to face a human danger this season. Which is probably a nice way to say they needed filler for him. I can almost understand where they're coming from, because whenever I talk to people watching the show, they seem to be very bored of Bran and disinterested in his story. But ultimately, the Crasters subplot falls short. At least Karl was awesome to watch.


Agreed. I also agree with Sean from the episode review that Bran's storyline lacks a real threat of danger because, like Daenerys, he is so isolated that he has "plot armor". At least I felt that way when reading until he reached the cave. Daenerys is more in danger but I can't see her dying without ever coming to Westeros. And I can't see Bran dying until we see some major revelation from the tree network.
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Re: The mutineers at Craster's

Postby Phoenix » Fri May 23, 2014 11:17 pm

From what I've read and heard, they wanted to Bran to face a human danger this season. Which is probably a nice way to say they needed filler for him.


Haha :lol: yeah I must agree with this.


I also agree with Sean from the episode review that Bran's storyline lacks a real threat of danger because, like Daenerys, he is so isolated that he has "plot armor".


This is quite true; until he reaches his destination it's hard to really feel any tension for his fate, no matter what they decide to fill his storyline with. The Reeds and Hodor are more expendable, so there is potential for fear and drama there... But as I said in another post (I forget which thread), the mutineers went into the cabin to attempt to rape Meera right when we knew the NW was about to launch their attack. So even though that could be a very frightening situation, I didn't actually feel any fear for the characters at all because it was set up that the NW would rescue them right at the last minute.
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