Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Vaxis » Wed May 28, 2014 3:54 pm

DarrenT wrote:I totally agree that losing Tywin, Oberyn, Sandor and Bronn (at least for the time being with the latter two) is going to have a negative effect on the show. Especially on the heals of losing Robb and Catelyn (AND JOFFREY!) Tywin and Sandor are two of the best anti-heroes/villains in the show and Oberyn and Bronn are definitely charismatic fan favourites. I know I was disappointed to lose Oberyn so quickly in the books.

I think the show will be hard pressed to get fans invested in the Greyjoy storyline at this point, having not introduced some of the major players in that storyline yet. When I read Crows and Dragons I enjoyed the history and subplot aspect of the Greyjoys plotline but to be honest I'm not too concerned with any of their fates, other than Asha. I assume their doom is inevitable so I'm not worried about them dying, only how they effect the overall plot (ie. dragons) before their end.

I think the new fan favourite characters will come from Dorne though. I loved finally seeing Dorne in the later books and I think Arianne, Doran, Quentyn, Areo and the Sand Snakes will all become favourites.

Plus the show will benefit from combining books 4 and 5 so we don't go a full season without seeing Tyrion, Daenerys, Jon etc.


I agree with Dorne but I also like the characters of the Isles too (though not as decent human beings). Euron is a pretty bad dude but I am eager to see what happens with him in the story, and I hope we see him more. When cast right, I think he can bring a lot of color and flavor to the next season. After all, Bronn was never really that important or interesting in the books, but the TV show version was far more popular.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby DarrenT » Wed May 28, 2014 4:07 pm

You're right about Bron but I think he's the exception not the rule. I think most characters are better in the books. And I'm also very interested in the Iron Islands plot just not so much the characters. I think they're the least likeable of all families of Westeros (except for the Freys maybe). And I can't imagine a scenario where Euron and Victarion and even Aeron are alive at the end of the series. Asha and Theon may be in for it as well. But they clearly have a big part to play. I just don't think the average show-only viewer will like or care about them at all.

Side note: I guess we wont be seeing much of Varys after this season as well.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Vaxis » Wed May 28, 2014 4:38 pm

DarrenT wrote:You're right about Bron but I think he's the exception not the rule. I think most characters are better in the books. And I'm also very interested in the Iron Islands plot just not so much the characters. I think they're the least likeable of all families of Westeros (except for the Freys maybe). And I can't imagine a scenario where Euron and Victarion and even Aeron are alive at the end of the series. Asha and Theon may be in for it as well. But they clearly have a big part to play. I just don't think the average show-only viewer will like or care about them at all.

Side note: I guess we wont be seeing much of Varys after this season as well.


I think the average show viewer will be interested in anyone who is acted and written very well, whether the character is likeable (like Bronn or Oberyn) or unlikeable (like Tywin or Joffrey). There's always the possibility that the Ironborn story on the show may be very strong for those reasons, but it's impossible to predict this early. I can only predict that watching Ironborn culture will be a very different experience than reading about it, probably. If nothing else, Euron may emerge as a clear villain in the story, and people might appreciate him for that alone.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby GeekFurious » Wed May 28, 2014 5:00 pm

DarrenT wrote:I think the new fan favourite characters will come from Dorne though. I loved finally seeing Dorne in the later books and I think Arianne, Doran, Quentyn, Areo and the Sand Snakes will all become favourites.


Exactly. I think they are well aware of the love for Oberyn and that they could use Dorne and the Martell line as kind of quasi Starks. Meaning, a group of people who have every reason to want revenge and are more than capable of delivering it if given the opportunity. And a family the audience will openly root for because their favorite character from that family died in King's Landing while opposing the Lannisters.

Mining that level of audience passion could, if done right, make the show's coverage of those book plot lines (heresy inbound) superior to the books.

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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Heartsbane » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:25 am

I'm bummed that I'm going to have to spend and entire episode this Sunday listening to Jon whine. How much you guys wanna bet Jon will physically attack the child Satin stand-in once he kills Ygritte? Christ, I fucking hate Jon so much.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Vaxis » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:53 am

Heartsbane wrote:I'm bummed that I'm going to have to spend and entire episode this Sunday listening to Jon whine. How much you guys wanna bet Jon will physically attack the child Satin stand-in once he kills Ygritte? Christ, I fucking hate Jon so much.


A bit harsh and odd to predict, considering he does no such thing in the book, and after her death, only ever thinks about her internally without ever actually speaking of her. He clearly abandons her fully to return to the Watch, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Heartsbane » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:18 am

Vaxis wrote:
Heartsbane wrote:I'm bummed that I'm going to have to spend and entire episode this Sunday listening to Jon whine. How much you guys wanna bet Jon will physically attack the child Satin stand-in once he kills Ygritte? Christ, I fucking hate Jon so much.


A bit harsh and odd to predict, considering he does no such thing in the book, and after her death, only ever thinks about her internally without ever actually speaking of her. He clearly abandons her fully to return to the Watch, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.


I really, really really really hate Jon Snow with an irrational rage. To a point where I can't stand the sight of Kit Harrington, who I'm sure is a perfectly nice guy.

What's making me predict that is they added a love angle to the Jon/Ygritte relationship that wasn't really that prevalent in the books. And they've made Jon even whinier, which I didn't even think was possible. He has emotions and personality in the show, so they're going to need to do something with it.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby DarrenT » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:26 pm

Very harsh but I can agree to a certain extent. Kit Harrington does have the mopey face down to a T and looks like he's on the verge of tears most of the time, but this is very appropriate for the solemn Stark look. I think in the show only Jon, Ned and Benjen have the Stark look as described in the books. Arya is great but she has a rounder face instead of the long, lean, solemn face described in the book. And the rest of the Starks have the Tully look, which I think the show pulled off very well, especially the hair.

I've had my suspicions about whether or not Jon actually did kill Ygritte or not. He dreams that he did kill her even though he thinks to himself that he did not. Is this the same sort of mental block we see with Ned and his memory of Lyanna? It seems like Ygritte would stick out, even in a frantic battle A) by being a woman in a predominantly male battle and B) her hair. Plus Jon would probably be looking for her. Not sure if I believe he actually did kill her (if he did it would be a strong Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa connection) but I've always made a mental note when he thinks about it....I think there's something more here.

I do think the show is foreshadowing the kid from the hamlet, who claims to be a great archer, being the one to kill Ygritte.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Saggins » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:08 pm

Acting Lord Commander, Ser Alliser Thorne's actor Owen Teale gave an incredible performance tonight. So much respect.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby DarrenT » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:27 am

Saggins wrote:Acting Lord Commander, Ser Alliser Thorne's actor Owen Teale gave an incredible performance tonight. So much respect.


Completely agree. In fact his leadership and speech were so important that I wonder if he actually will be Jon's main competition in the choosing, as I believe Cotter Pyke and Jason Mallister haven't been introduced as of yet in the show. I loved how the show portrayed Thorne, a "bad guy", as capable. He's an antagonist and an asshole but he's not a bad guy. He was on the wrong side of Robert's Rebellion and is now charged with training the rejects of the realm and is rivalled by Ned Stark's son. His motivations are understandable, if not justified.
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