Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

No spoilers for the season except for in the Spoiler discussion thread.

Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby jom » Sun May 25, 2014 12:06 pm

Heartsbane wrote:They'll likely write out Maggie the Frog and everything, seeing how it would require a flash back, something the show hasn't done before.


Interestingly...just the other day "Winter is Coming" website posted a report the show are looking for an actress to play Maggie the Frog next season. I thought that was odd considering exactly what you said...doing "flashbacks". Maybe it won't be a flashback but something in the present time. ???? Of course, the report could be bogus for all we know....

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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Heartsbane » Sun May 25, 2014 5:24 pm

Not to go all Comic Book Guy, but if they suddenly bust out with a flashback after four seasons of awkward expositions that will be totally jumping the shark. I sat through a Petyr Baelish fisting monologue, I swear to God they had BETTER not start using their brains now.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby DarrenT » Mon May 26, 2014 12:22 pm

Heartsbane wrote:I sat through a Petyr Baelish fisting monologue, I swear to God they had BETTER not start using their brains now.


First of all, I lol-ed at that. Funny stuff. I will disagree though, I think the monologues are something the show does very well. For example in 407 Oberyn's monologue was very powerful with his great performance and Tyrion's fantastic reaction. I think we'd lose that if we saw a flashback of that scene. I assume Maggie the frog will get cut also but I could see a Cersei monologue describing it. That's arguably the most important moment in Cersei's life. She is driven by fear and all of it comes from that encounter.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Heartsbane » Tue May 27, 2014 4:54 pm

DarrenT wrote:For example in 407 Oberyn's monologue was very powerful with his great performance and Tyrion's fantastic reaction. I think we'd lose that if we saw a flashback of that scene.


And I completely agree with you here. I just get annoyed when HBO, D&D et al feel a need to pair monologues with tits and bare asses. (There were chicks going down on each other while Oberyn for some reasons to do with exposition felt the need to explain himself to a prostitute and slap his firm butt! So don't feel too threatened 18-34 male demographic!) It's because they don't believe we're going to actually pay attention to important things being said unless there's sexy sexy sex sex sex going on too. HBO doesn't believe we're smart enough.

And in what universe do wealthy, powerful men explain their life stories, personal desires, or spill their plans of betrayal and deceit to prostitutes? In what version of reality is that a good idea?
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby GeekFurious » Tue May 27, 2014 5:16 pm

jom wrote:I thought this might be the best place to ask this instead of starting a new thread.

Spoiler: show
Has anyone wondered about the difficult job the show runners are going to have after this season with the loss of a few big characters? With Oberyon, Tywin, Sandor and Bronn probably being out the picture the runners are going to have a hard time replacing some of these fan favorites. I wonder who the next set of characters could be that "take up the slack" so to speak.


I put that in spoilers just in case this isn't appropriate to discuss...I'm being overly careful I suppose. :D

jom


I think the showrunners are worried about rebuilding the world in a way that satisfies viewers and keeps them tuned in. The books, after ASoS, are a sloooooooooowwww burn (which I love). But it doesn't translate well to television (just look at the viewership numbers for THE WIRE, which was the slowest burn ever on television). So D&D will likely have to focus on the more likable characters and invent scenarios for them that are even more exciting than they are in the books.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Heartsbane » Tue May 27, 2014 7:51 pm

GeekFurious wrote:I think the showrunners are worried about rebuilding the world in a way that satisfies viewers and keeps them tuned in.


TOTALLY!

I'm trying to wrap my head around how in the world writers can keep adding new characters willy nilly. There's an entire Kingsmoot to write off and adapt. I mean seriously.

And my own prediction for Iron Islands stuff will be that Asha/Yara will be the one to murder her father in a rage about his not giving a shit about Theon.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Vaxis » Tue May 27, 2014 7:54 pm

Heartsbane wrote:
GeekFurious wrote:I think the showrunners are worried about rebuilding the world in a way that satisfies viewers and keeps them tuned in.


TOTALLY!

I'm trying to wrap my head around how in the world writers can keep adding new characters willy nilly. There's an entire Kingsmoot to write off and adapt. I mean seriously.

And my own prediction for Iron Islands stuff will be that Asha/Yara will be the one to murder her father in a rage about his not giving a shit about Theon.


I personally think (so far) that Balon actually has died and we simply don't know it yet because the news hasn't traveled (or is being kept from leaving the islands). That way, when Yara returns to the Isles, she will meet a changed situation. Theon would likely hear the news from the Ironborn at Moat Cailin next episode, as the news would be a reason for Victarion to not be there (if indeed Victarion will be in the show, as I suspect he will). It would at least be good timing for Euron to come to the Isles and raise support while Yara is away on a long rescue mission. If Aeron is in the show (doubtful), he'd raise the kingsmoot once Vic and Yara are returned. If Aeron is cut, Yara would raise the kingsmoot herself. I am hoping Aeron goes on to be important in TWOW so that he can be in the show!

Of course, that's my optimism speaking.

Either way, Euron and Victarion seem absolutely essential to the plot of the second half of the series, so there is no way I see them being cut. If the show has time to sustain three sand snakes and Areo Hotah (as leaked casting news would suggest), then they can definitely make room for some Greyjoys. Consider as well that Kings Landing will have a lot less time in season 5. Simply put, there will be far fewer main characters in the city next season. That frees up a lot of time.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby Heartsbane » Tue May 27, 2014 8:23 pm

Vaxis wrote:Either way, Euron and Victarion seem absolutely essential to the plot of the second half of the series, so there is no way I see them being cut.


You are completely right. How changing it could have a butterfly effect? Man, my head hurts.

Euron and Victarion are essential to the Iron Islands aspect of the series' plot. So where are they? They should have been introduced in the show when Theon went to treat with his father. I'm not looking at this in regards to timing, because at this point they need to stretch these last seasons out as long as possible for the books to be published. (Hint: GRRM won't be writing them.)

Like GeekFurious wrote, D&D and the showrunners are about to build a new world, so how are they going to establish these characters to the show viewers? I honestly thought we were going to meet not only Aeron (is that the priest?), but Euron and Victarion when Theon returned as an envoy to the Iron Islands. I know that's before it happens in the books, but I seriously couldn't imagine show viewers being able to follow along or even caring about the ins and outs of historical Iron Island politics.

However! Casting them and establishing them so far in advance may have Branned them (I CLAIM THAT EUPHEMISM!), giving them nothing to do for several episodes except wander around, reminding the audience that they exist.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby GeekFurious » Tue May 27, 2014 9:45 pm

While I am definitely worried about many of the omissions, I also think D&D CAN deliver on the main plot points from the books. They'll just have to sail that boat through uncharted waters to get to the same place as GRRM.

I think they could have stuck closer to the books and delivered the same level of satisfaction for TV viewers. At this point, some of their decisions, especially in season 4, seem very puzzling.
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Re: Episode Discussion (ASOIAF spoilers)

Postby DarrenT » Wed May 28, 2014 3:43 pm

I totally agree that losing Tywin, Oberyn, Sandor and Bronn (at least for the time being with the latter two) is going to have a negative effect on the show. Especially on the heals of losing Robb and Catelyn (AND JOFFREY!) Tywin and Sandor are two of the best anti-heroes/villains in the show and Oberyn and Bronn are definitely charismatic fan favourites. I know I was disappointed to lose Oberyn so quickly in the books.

I think the show will be hard pressed to get fans invested in the Greyjoy storyline at this point, having not introduced some of the major players in that storyline yet. When I read Crows and Dragons I enjoyed the history and subplot aspect of the Greyjoys plotline but to be honest I'm not too concerned with any of their fates, other than Asha. I assume their doom is inevitable so I'm not worried about them dying, only how they effect the overall plot (ie. dragons) before their end.

I think the new fan favourite characters will come from Dorne though. I loved finally seeing Dorne in the later books and I think Arianne, Doran, Quentyn, Areo and the Sand Snakes will all become favourites.

Plus the show will benefit from combining books 4 and 5 so we don't go a full season without seeing Tyrion, Daenerys, Jon etc.
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