S04E09 (show spoilers)

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S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby Vaxis » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:22 pm

Well, it was pretty intense. Just about every character in the area got a good deal of screen time, although Mance is still unseen. The effects with the Giants and Mammoth were pretty great, and the Ice-Scythe was utterly mind-blowing (a big surprise, as no such thing was in the book).

I was a little surprised that the episode ran only 51 minutes or so, but that's been the norm this year. I think the poor sucker who got launched off the Wall by a Giants arrow will go down as one of the most memorable kills of the year (and the whole show).
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby Jorje » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:26 pm

Hey guys,

My review of the episode content is pending.

Regarding the running time, I wonder how much did they saved up for s4e10? Any guesses?

I will say 75 min would be nice.
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby Vaxis » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:09 pm

Jorje wrote:Hey guys,

My review of the episode content is pending.

Regarding the running time, I wonder how much did they saved up for s4e10? Any guesses?

I will say 75 min would be nice.


It was announced some weeks back that episode 10 is to be 66 minutes. My guess is that the Sansa and Theon/Bolton plots are done for the year so I think it should go well.
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby DarrenT » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:59 pm

Damnit Jon, why couldn't you send Janos to hold the gate!?

As soon as he sent Grenn I knew it was all she wrote for him. I missed Donnel Noye but at least Grenn got to die defending the realm. Didn't see Pyp coming though.

I really expected Stannis this episode and for them to cut the Jon as an envoy plot but I'm really glad we're going to see that. Jon and Mance exchange are some of my favourite chapters in the books and this one especially.

I didn't mind Ygritte's death being Hollywood'ed up. Even though I liked the unceremoniousness of it in the books. Don't know how Jon is going to treat that kid now.

I liked how they showed Alliser as a capable leader. If this were alot of other shows or most movies he'd be incompetent because he's an antagonist but I loved his "i hate you and you hate me so lets survive this and go on hating eachother" speech.

As for Janos, I couldnt quite tell if he was just hiding in the corner or if Gilly had knocked him out for likely trying to rape her? Either way, Edd needs to fetch a block.

As far as next episode goes my predictions are we get:

Jon treating with Mance
Stannis arrives
lots of Bran! Probably ending with him first meeting the Three Eyed Crow
Arya ditching Sandor, although it looks like there might be one more fight coming
And of course Tyrion's escape...I'm expecting that scene between Tyrion and Tywin to be one of, if not the best scene of the series so far.
I'm wracking my head trying to think of an ending for Dany but all I can come up with is maybe she finds out about Drogon killing a child? She's due to have a season end on a major downer instead of dominating the episode.
Agree with above that Sansa, Theon are probably done but I wonder if we see Asha's return to Pyke and Balon's death but that might be a little anti-climactic.
Any chance we see the Lord Commander choosing next ep? My money is on that's how they open season 5 but it's a possibility.
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby siknes » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:25 am

If it's to be true to the book? The end will be the SH reveal, maybe thru an Arya/Nymeria Dream, because they don't have Thoros and Dondarrion cast this season. It seems too early to be the "Sword" Brienne scene, but that would work.

They have time now that Jon is going to Treat with Mance, quite a walk. So it could be at the beginning of the EP or later. With Stannis' vanguard stomping the Wildling line and making them run.

Of course the prolonged Tyrion scenes. 15min+ Jamie threatening Varys,Jamie and Tyrion telling each other the truth of past lies(Tysha a maid, Cersie a whore/Lancel) Varys saying "I shouldn't", Shae being a whore in Tywin's bed-unless D&D want to use Shae as Tysha, Lord Tywin doesn't in the end shit gold.

Dany might make sense to find Drogon burned a kid and they need to be locked up, but can work better for next year/showing the pits/fighting.

Arya doesn't give the Hound Mercy, then finds a/white harbor.

It all depends on if D&D want to in/conclude every POV. I don't think it is as important as the Season openings. But then again there are too many Characters.
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby Logain » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:14 am

This episode contained some of the most dynamic cinematography I have ever seen on television. The 360 battle scene was spectacular. The camera movements following the action were impressive and the choreography was exciting and energetic, it genuinely gave me a bit of fear about who was going to get caught up in the fury of the fighting. The comedic opening conversations and general reflections weren't self indulgent but struck just the right tone of resigned fear.

There were bits I was less keen on, the scythe seems very popular online, for me it doesn't fit well in the Wall's function or mystique. I prefer my walls simple and icy. Spectacular no doubt, perhaps a homage to the chain they couldn't afford for Blackwater. The Giant's bow was impressive too, my only problem was the physics seemed to go from naught to hollywood in about three seconds.

Grenn and Pyp's deaths were the sacrifice the show had to make in place of other beloved characters they didn't have time to develop to die here. I was suitably saddened by both of their departures.

Ygritte, sad times indeed. I was quite affected by her hesitation, Jon's resignation and smile, then the devastating turn of events for her. I was definitely reflecting more on the book's Ygritte rather than the show's psychopath, I like to think if Jon had encountered her in the book then this could have been the outcome, just deeply saddening.

Tormund! Haha, I was wondering what his fate would be, great final moments before being locked up!

Darren T wrote:As for Janos, I couldnt quite tell if he was just hiding in the corner or if Gilly had knocked him out for likely trying to rape her?


I doubt it, even Janos Slynt probably doesn't swing from fleeing in terror to horny/desperate enough to rape in his final moments. He was still conscious and cowering behind the door when Sam entered.

Darren T wrote:Any chance we see the Lord Commander choosing next ep? My money is on that's how they open season 5 but it's a possibility.


I would put money on this not happening next episode too. They need to leave some Jon plot for season five, I don't know how they could fit the convoluted circumstances around this happening until after things have settled down a bit. I think the Stannis reveal will be the ending of this season's arc.

As for next week, no Cleganebowl but perhaps two potential descendants of Dunk will have at one another. This image is a cell from the preview for S04E10, and seems to portray a clash between The Hound and Brienne. Who knows, this could be interrupted by outlaws or some other disturbance, because Brienne is in a position to win outright and the denial of mercy is a scene I doubt the showrunners would miss out on.

I deeply hope that Lady Stoneheart is the reveal in the closing moments, more so than the Children of the Forest, more than Stannis, more than locking up dragons. I also hope they don't scrimp on the pale face, white and lumpy like pudding aspects. I don't want to see a sexy Stoneheart, she should be grotesque!
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby DornishWhino » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:02 am

I was really disapointed to not see the Stannis thing this episode but it was still really intense. My wife couldnt even watch most of it...she kept screaming and jumping...telling me that I was a horrible person for laughing at the violence...it's not a fairytale marriage :P ...None the less it was great to see all the desperation of the fight...I would have liked to see a wider shot of the Wildling army with more bodies in there...I felt like the force that we saw wasn't even large enough to get worried about...oh well...The scithe was my favorite...Love seeing the face of the first guy...Hilarious. Here's hoping to see the shimmering steel of the vanguard in next episode.
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby DarrenT » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:21 am

For me that battle had a good mix of real-life grittiness and Hollywood action. As Pyp says before the battle, him and alot of the other Night's Watch brothers havent ever held a sword with a real edge and the majority of Wildlings wouldnt have faced an opponent with a real weapon; this would make for a really gritty hack and slash type fight, which I think they captured reasonably well. The sweeping shot over the whole yard was pretty spectacular. I suspect that it was several shots stitched together but even so, very cool.

I did like the scythe, pretty cool but not super realistic. The giant's bow was a bit of a surprise. It makes sense they would have bows too but their range would have made this fight a game-changer. Are we assuming that the giant that Grenn and co slay is Mag the Mighty? I hope there's a line in the Jon-Mance conversation about this...it would be a nice homage to the book.
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby clover » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:47 am

Hey new user here. I've been a fan of the podcast for awhile and have been enjoying reading everyone's discussions here on this forum and decided to join in so I could ask everyone's opinion on something in this episode that stayed with me after I watched it the other night.

The scene where Aemon and Sam are talking and Aemon refers to a lover, do you feel that it was a throwaway line added by the show writers to help Aemon and Sam connect in that scene. Or was Aemon's lover who succeeded, maybe "successful" enough to have potentially given Aemon a line of successors. I'm leaning towards it being a throw away line, but Aemon to me seems to be an odd character to randomly have the show give an additional non-book back story to. Does anyone else have any thought's on Aemon's scene with Sam. It seems not too many people are talking about it.
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Re: S04E09 (show spoilers)

Postby McDougal » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:59 am

Looking back I have a few problems with the episode.
Firstly I will admit that my disappointment at this episode is mostly because I thought that we'd get Stannis this week, because when people talk about the battle at the wall that's what I think of, not the assault on castle black, don't get me wrong I enjoyed that chapter of the books but it's pretty small in terms of material. So I presumed that the amalgamated battle's at the wall would also include Stannis's counterattack. So I did enjoy the episode up until when I realized it was going to cut out. it's more of a retrospective dislike!

I just think it felt stretched, with generic action and filler scenes revolving around central moments ie. Ygritte dying, the assault on the gate. I also felt that while I enjoyed the fighting in the yard (the filming was incredible) it lacked direction, I mean one moment the Wildlings are charging around everywhere overunning the NW and I thought at any moment would break into a building and kill Maester Aemon, then John kills a few of them and Styr and it's all over, it just seemed a bit silly. Also it kinda contradicts what Jon says to Ygritte last season about the wildlings lacking discipline and each one fighting and dying like a hero, as in the books the nights watch use tactics and very little open battle to defeat them whereas here it was kinda every man for himself. Nittpicky I know (Sorry)

Lastly small complaint but why an injured Alliser couldn't have ordered Jon to go kill Mance, I don't know, it's again with Jon doing the things he's averse to in the books (blocking the tunnel, treating with Mance) himself. I would've preferred that to another Sam and Gilly scene

P.s I thought that Tormund would escape but I'm predicting that he'll now take on Val's role in Dance next season
p.p.s Sorry this is such a long rant.
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