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History of Westeros • View topic - Mercy

Mercy

Discussion of the various The Winds of Winter sample chapters that have been released or read.

Mercy

Postby WizztheSmith » Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:21 pm

This chapter is imo the best of the pre released WOW excerpts. It was full of information, answering some questions from previous chapters as well as creating some new mysteries. We are treated to - another wolf dream, with Bran seemingly watching Nymeria - Who Izembarro is - Phario Forel and the information in his plays - The Westerosi envoy - The play, and the clues as to who the characters are. [ I lean towards Mercy playing Shae ] - Harys Swift with the Black pearl - We learn Tywin went to Lys when hand to Aerys - Key holders [ whoever they are ] - And the dark, almost ritualistic way in which Arya killed another on her list, Raff-The-Sweetling. I probably missed some stuff as well, so much to think on and discuss.

Also I think Arya may have a way to continue with the FM. While luring RTS away to his dark end, they had a conversation, designed by Arya to aid her ritualistic plan for Raff's demise. This culminates in Raff answering the question '' Mercy , my name is Mercy, can you say it ? '' With his answer being '' Mercy .... '' My name is Raff '' he has inadvertently asked for the gift. I could be wrong here, but this is what jumped out at me when reading.

Again, so much to think on and discuss, look forward to any opinions
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Re: Mercy

Postby Azizal » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:21 pm

I think it was my 2nd favorite of the spoiler chapters, Victarion's was my fave thus far. I really loved seeing how the stories of Tyrion have grown in the telling, becoming almost ridiculous.

Here's a topic from the chapter we didn't bring up on the podcast (and we were aware of it, just wasn't in our notes somehow).

Start with this quote from Dany way back in book 1:

She remembered Ser Willem dimly, a great grey bear of a man, halfblind, roaring and bellowing orders from his sickbed. The servants had lived in terror of him, but he had always been kind to Dany. He called her “Little Princess” and sometimes “My Lady,” and his hands were soft as old leather. He never left his bed, though, and the smell of sickness clung to him day and night, a hot, moist, sickly sweet odor. That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window. After Ser Willem had died, the servants had stolen what little money they had left, and soon after they had been put out of the big house. Dany had cried when the red door closed behind them forever.

Compare that to this:

“Seven hells, this place is damp,” she heard her guard complain. “I’m chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?”

“Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis,” the other guard replied. He was an older man, big-bellied and grizzled. “I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once, when he was Hand to Aerys. Braavos is north of King’s Landing, fool. Can’t you read a bloody map?”


I am doubtful that this is somehow an error. The mention of lemon trees in the Braavos scene is basically out of nowhere and isn't relevant to anything else happening. I believe it is a clue of some kind, but I'm not terribly confident as to what it means.

Only two ideas come to mind so far.

The first is simple false memory, like we see when Sansa "remembers" Sandor kissing her. But this is very unsatisfying as an answer because in Sansa's case she's got a false memory of a single moment. In Dany's case this is a place she lived, she would've seen this tree multiple times a day every day for months if not a year or two. She was awfully young though, is it possible she was simply seeing something other than lemons? Also not very satisfying. Why would GRRM bother to write something so pointless?

The other idea is that this is further evidence that Dany has some of the Targaryen insanity. Remembering things that never happened, etc. Either way it is very curious.
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Re: Mercy

Postby Vaxis » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:40 pm

Yeah, I've seen this "lemon issue" discussed before, and I really don't know what to think of it. Nothing, I like to imagine. I mean, she was definitely in Braavos all that time, and she should probably be at least somewhat sure of what a lemon is (not many fruits ripen yellow). I personally don't think it's a big stretch to say that small lemon trees might exist in the gardens of wealthy homes in Braavos, but people like to point out that the climate wouldn't allow them to grow. I am also reluctant to think that Dany has a faulty memory, but then again, she forgot the name of Hazzea. It's just a strange thing to even reflect on.

Is it a funny little commentary inserted by GRRM showing us that we sometimes remember golden days as being different than they truly were?
The snowflakes are melting in your hair.
There are ghosts everywhere. We carry them with us wherever we go.
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Re: Mercy

Postby WizztheSmith » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:26 pm

Hmm, the lemon tree issue. This is a mysterious part of GRRM's story, it could just be as the ideas above suggest, but as Aziz mentioned maybe a little unsatisfying. This got me thinking, and subsequently '' Net trawling ''.
There was nothing with solid evidence, but some interesting views, as follows. [ source : Yolkboy-Tearsofblood.org-Radio Westeros on YouTube. Info off of Yolkboy thread, Westeros.org ]

'' There's no more wood '' Dareon had paid the innkeep double for a room with a hearth, but none of them had realized that wood would be so costly here. Trees did not grow in Braavos, save in the courts of the mighty.
[ Samwell, AFFC ]

So we have information that the rich + the mighty grow trees in Braavos. And a look at ' The Lands of Ice & Fire ' maps reveal that the only garden visible in an otherwise grey city, is that of the Sealord's palace. The Sealord is certainly mighty. So is this a clue as to where Dani + Viserys lived in their childhood ? Maybe a nod to where ' The big house with the red door ' is ? Could the Sealord have had a ' lemon tree ' in his garden ?

Some interesting views arose from this thread, one of which was, if this ' Sealord Palace thing ' is accurate, it could tie in with the ' Targ -- Martell ' marriage pact. And therefore the hospitality shown towards Viserys + Dani is perhaps more justified ? But more importantly could have a link to ' lemon trees '. Dorne is the one place we have seen lemon trees growing in the text.

'' Beyond a line of stony hills the grass grew greener and more lush, and there were lemon orchards watered by a spider's web of old canals ''

So could the lemon tree have been a gift to the Sealord from the Martell's of Dorne when the marriage pact was agreed ? The timeline would suggest Westeros was in the middle of a hot summer. [ The Starks being 'summer children' ] could this effect the Braavosi temperature enabling the growth of lemon trees ? Or has he got a glass garden as the Starks have ? Sorry, more questions than answers ! But thought provoking nonetheless. :D

Either way, i enjoyed looking into this, and the lemon tree mystery continues, lets hope for a positive solution in future books. If not, speculation is always fun. ;)
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