Alayne

Discussion of the various The Winds of Winter sample chapters that have been released or read.

Re: Alayne

Postby Vaxis » Mon May 04, 2015 8:49 am

SerKnute wrote:That was a pretty good chapter, or partial if he's holding out some.

I was puzzled at this paragraph; am I missing some meaning or context here, or is this simply just a typo?

Alayne could not help but shutter. Myranda’s husband had died when he was making love with her. “Those Sistermen who came in yesterday were gallant,” she said, to change the subject. “If you don’t like Ser Ossifer or Ser Uther, marry one of them instead. I thought the youngest one was very handsome.”

Shouldn't that be shudder?


One of many typos in the sample. George's assistants manually transcribed the whole thing from a different format, so many mistakes occurred.
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Re: Alayne

Postby SerKnute » Mon May 04, 2015 11:36 am

Ahhh that makes sense. I mean I've done it before myself, we're all human, but I thought that editors would've caught that type of error, perhaps sample chapters don't get quite that scrutiny? :p
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Re: Alayne

Postby BillyPyke » Mon May 11, 2015 4:31 pm

WizztheSmith wrote: With this chapter, there's also the possibility of future Winged Knights' being almost hostages, to add to that he has in Grafton and Lynderly's sons as wards/squires. I'll be keen to see what House names are granted wings. Perhaps the papers blown on the floor in LF's solar were a clue ? The competitors from the tourney were on the papers, perhaps an attempt to fix the line up ? It may serve as a clever ploy to gain the right Houses as protectors of SR, and under his watchful gaze, could prove valuable.


This. I don't see Petyr allowing Harry into a tourney in which he could either die, or be awarded with a position of celibacy that blocks his marriage to Alayne for three years unless he's fixed the tourney and decided the winners.

Petyr is probably in league with the Gulltown merchants as well. We tend to look at Lyonel Corbray's marriage from his point of view, or what Baelish stood to gain -Lyonel needed an heir, and Petyr needed loyalty- but what about the bride's father? His family is marrying way up into a noble House of the Vale and certainly owes Petyr for making the match. The Lords of the Vale have their titles and harvests, but debt; and the Gulltown merchants have money, but no noble blood or titles - just like Petyr's ancestors. Persuading the the merchants to make deals for food so great that the desperate Lords of the Vale can't refuse ensures a very lucrative trade for both parties. But more importantly, winter is coming and the Lords of the Vale can't eat silver stags.

Petyr will have their food and their sons, and the Lords Declarent will have no choice but to support him.

WizztheSmith wrote:Also, the identical daggers that are being handed out raised some serious alarm bells for me. This seems a perfect plan to have murder in mind, involving one of these daggers, with a mind boggling job of finding out who did it, everyone who's anyone has one, apart from the competitors, I think. The fact LF had these gifts arranged has me on the look out.


Really good catch. Littlefinger's placement of Harry's quarters far from Sweetrobin's also implies that he very deliberately planned everyone's lodgings.

The wild card in the Gates of the Moon tourney is Lyn Corbray. An unmarried war veteran who lead the charge against the Dornish on the Trident and slew Lewyn Martell; far more capable than the untested boys competing in the Sweetrobin's tourney, and my vote for champion. Littlefinger had employed him before, when he was still heir to his line; to the dismay of his brother Lyonel. But now, thanks to Baelish, Lyonel is married and soon to be a father; thus disinheriting Lyn and removing any reason he had to support Petyr. How will he keep Lyn on his side? Or is Lyn the target of the murder?

And what did Petyr mean when he said - “The night belongs to you, sweetling, Remember that, always.”
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Re: Alayne

Postby WizztheSmith » Fri May 15, 2015 8:37 pm

BillyPyke wrote:1.] This. I don't see Petyr allowing Harry into a tourney in which he could either die, or be awarded with a position of celibacy that blocks his marriage to Alayne for three years unless he's fixed the tourney and decided the winners.

Petyr is probably in league with the Gulltown merchants as well. We tend to look at Lyonel Corbray's marriage from his point of view, or what Baelish stood to gain -Lyonel needed an heir, and Petyr needed loyalty- but what about the bride's father? His family is marrying way up into a noble House of the Vale and certainly owes Petyr for making the match. The Lords of the Vale have their titles and harvests, but debt; and the Gulltown merchants have money, but no noble blood or titles - just like Petyr's ancestors. Persuading the the merchants to make deals for food so great that the desperate Lords of the Vale can't refuse ensures a very lucrative trade for both parties. But more importantly, winter is coming and the Lords of the Vale can't eat silver stags.

Petyr will have their food and their sons, and the Lords Declarent will have no choice but to support him.

2.] Really good catch. Littlefinger's placement of Harry's quarters far from Sweetrobin's also implies that he very deliberately planned everyone's lodgings.

The wild card in the Gates of the Moon tourney is Lyn Corbray. An unmarried war veteran who lead the charge against the Dornish on the Trident and slew Lewyn Martell; far more capable than the untested boys competing in the Sweetrobin's tourney, and my vote for champion. Littlefinger had employed him before, when he was still heir to his line; to the dismay of his brother Lyonel. But now, thanks to Baelish, Lyonel is married and soon to be a father; thus disinheriting Lyn and removing any reason he had to support Petyr. How will he keep Lyn on his side? Or is Lyn the target of the murder?

And what did Petyr mean when he said - “The night belongs to you, sweetling, Remember that, always.”


Hey BillyPyke, nice post. To reply to your points.......

1.] Yeah, I do think any 'Winged Knights' would be looked upon by LF as an opportunity to manipulate Vale houses. As you've mentioned in other posts [ I think ], it was Sansa's idea and LF agreed to it. But the way he praises her for these good ideas always has me on the look out, they seem to suit him as much as anything else, and 'pushing' the fact that it was her idea could deflect any suspicion on his part should something unthinkable happen. ;)

I like your point about the merchants in Gulltown. I mentioned this in my post, but concentrated on Lyonel's perspective, you're right to emphasise the role they could play, strengthening LF's Vale network at the very least. Nice point on the buying of food by the merchants, he is obviously using the food thing to his advantage in the long run. IIRC, it was Grafton + Belmore talking with LF about the food, two apparent puppets in Petyr's web, and as for Bronze Yohn Royce he was showing no concern over regards his selling of food from his own port. Again trying to undermine and weaken an apparent enemy. [ in the long run, as you said winter is coming ]

It has been noted that Petyr has friends in Gulltown, and was very successful when he worked there before moving on to King's Landing. Add to this his apparent friendship with Lord Grafton, and it seems on the surface that he has Gulltown wrapped up.

However, the Shett's are also from GT, and when Sansa runs into one in this chapter, she notes that she has to be careful around this guy as Alayne was supposed to be born there. So maybe not plain sailing, there is always the caveat that any of these 'alliances' could backfire at any time, but for me Petyr's scheming is in full flow at the moment.

'' Can't eat silver stags'' + '' Have their food + their sons''
: Heh ! Exactly, he seems to have worked his magic, but again, it should be noted that all of this is under suspicion of Vale Lords, Lady Anya shows some disdain in this chapter, even though LF has covered her debt. One feels he may need this back up he is seemingly trying to achieve, this is dangerous ground he is treading.

2.] [ The Daggers ] Thanks, I was surprised no one else beat me to it, and haven't seen much discussion on this possibility throughout the fandom, if at all tbh. It does seem a great opportunity for dirty deeds, let's see what happens, :?: You heard it here first ! :lol:

Nice point on the lodgings, I had put it down to Robert's obvious dislike of Harry [ which btw showed a development to his character in this chapter, good to hear him have his say on his precarious position and wariness of Harry ] But decent idea to think that LF's planning goes as far as room placement, perhaps nothing, but shows a clarity of thought that could be extended to other guests at the GotM, don't want the wrong people to have ample opportunity to discuss, err....... Vale politics.

You're right to highlight Lyn, he is certainly a dubious character, and hard to read. Sansa's 'is he, isn't he' thoughts in this chapter were thought provoking. He is a dangerous man and one to watch, even if LF seems blissfully unaware at this point. However, I can't help but think that Petyr would be aware of the weakening of Lyn's situation, and perhaps have an alternative in mind. It's hard to say right now, as you point out, Lyn looks a problem [ undeniably ] and could very well be the target of a murder attempt to solve this situation. I'm on the fence right now, I do think a murder will happen, as for who gets killed, I don't know. You could just as easy get results by framing someone as well as 'offing' someone, I don't know, I just call murder ! ;)

Another wildcard could include Shadrich, [ The Mad Mouse ] The meeting with the 'Mad Mouse' was creepily cryptic after his earlier meeting with Brienne in the Riverlands. '' A bag of dragons '' indeed, this of course is worrying and may be another spanner in any works. Sooo much going on in this chapter, really enjoyed it.

Thanks for your feedback, I read your post on the 'Tapestries' thread [ Thanks for the shout out ] :) And it was an eloquent progression of exactly what I was proposing, so good work. I feel these ideas are valid and would love to hear some other posters views, in agreement or not. Again, thanks BillyPyke for your thoughts. :D
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Re: Alayne

Postby manyfacedgod911 » Wed May 27, 2015 3:52 pm

Really interesting discussion !

The coolest part about this chapter is that it reminded me how awesome the Sansa growth arc is in the books. In the TV show -she is limited to mere jibes and its very sad and meek.

I wonder what role the "winged knights" will have after the death of Sweetrobin. Or will sweetrobin die even before the end of the tournament ?
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